PoliticsUK interviews No2BedroomTax Campaign

 

 

Politics UK
PoliticsUK would like to welcome the organisers of the No2BedroomTax Campaign. PUK regulars will recognise the organiser as ¾ are long time PUK users.

 

Alan Wyllie

Hello PUK and thanks for having us on.  It is Jaki Calanthe birthday so Jaki and Jim Buntin won’t be joining us. And Chris Wyllie is online somewhere. He may say hello…

 

Politics UK

To start, what is it about the bedroom tax which made you decide to enter politics?

 

Alan Wyllie

Before we start I will like to say that I despise the term ‘bedroom tax’. It is ‘politicspeak’ and it is used to blur the issue.

 

The ‘bedroom tax’ is a BENEFIT CUT and it being referred to as a tax is not useful to anyone.

 

Alan Wyllie

I’ve known about the under-occupancy of the Welfare Reform Bill when it was going through Parliament with the other cuts to the welfare state. I was horrified when the Government used the Parliamentary Act 1911 to by-pass our democratic structure and force these horrendous and divisive policies onto us.

 

I have sat back for too long. I am angry. I had to do something. I despise what this Government and previous Governments have done to our country. A close friend (Mick Constable) constantly encouraged me and motivated me to ‘talk a little less and do a little more’. He was right.

 

Politics UK

The demo in Glasgow was reported as the biggest demo in the last decade in the city. How did four people with no political background and experience manage to pull that off?

 

Alan Wyllie

I think that you have already answered your own question.

It is BECAUSE we are non-political people with no political baggage or agenda.

People can relate to me cos I am in the EXACT same situation as them. I’m skint and the Government is attacking my family.

 

In my opinion, people have had enough of party politics and feel more comfortable with People’ Politics’.

 

But saying that… None of us expected the demo to be so big.

 

Politics UK

What are your memories from the demo itself?

 

Alan Wyllie

We all, with Mark Caudery , had arrived in Glasgow Green a little bit late due to a sat nav problem and the amount of one way roads in Glasgow.

 

We arrive at the Green at 11.40 and walked down a path that curved to the right. As we walked down that path we saw a few people at the assembly point. But as the path curved we realise that there were THOUSANDS there.

 

Except from marrying my wife and the birth of my kids. It was the proudest and humblest day of my life.

 

Politics UK

Onto the politics, The Government has said that the under-occupancy element of the welfare reform bill will save money, improve out housing system and is ultimately about fairness.

 

Will it save money?

 

Jaki Calanthe

The DWP’s own statement has said that even if everyone moved into smaller properties it wouldn’t save money.

 

Alan Wyllie

No.

Let’s split this down.

CENTRAL GOVERNMENT

The Government own figures state that if their policy on under-occupancy works (which it can’t due to the lack of one bedroom bedrooms), it will be COST NEUTRAL.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/138017/social-sector-housing-under-occupation-wr2011-ia.pdf.pdf

 

The all-party Public Accounts Committee says Iain Duncan Smith has not calculated how many will be hit by capping benefits and the bedroom tax.

They state that the benefit cuts could end up costing more as people are made homeless or driven from social housing to live in more expensive private rented homes.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-public-accounts-committee-1785374

 

Jaki Calanthe

Private lets are far more expensive than social housing. And evictions cost thousands of pounds.

 

Alan Wyllie

LOCAL GOVERNMENT

My own council, Renfrewshire Council, has estimated that it will lost £1.8m in lost revenues due to the bedroom tax alone.

 

That cost is representative of local authorities up and down the country

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/webcontent/home/services/social+care+and+health/benefits+and+debt+advice/ce-jm-benefit-changes

 

Alan Wyllie

EVICTIONS

Each eviction costs the taxpayer £26,000. That is money that should be spend on roads, hospitals, schools etc. which will now be spend on throwing disabled and poor people out onto the streets…

 

So I ask you, is this REALLY a cost-cutting exercise?

 

Politics UK

Will it improve our housing system?

 

Alan Wyllie

You cannot reform the housing system by manipulating the benefits system.

 

The Government’s own impact statement says clearly that there are not enough one bedroom flats for this to work. It is as simple as this.https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/138017/social-sector-housing-under-occupation-wr2011-ia.pdf.pdf

 

So what will happen is that people will be evicted due to bedroom tax arrears from social housing and moved into the private sector as there are not enough homes in the social sector. The average rent in social housing in England is £80, for private housing it is £160. And the increase rent will still have to be paid by the taxpayer…

 

They are taking us for mugs.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/english-housing-survey-2011-to-2012-headline-report

 

Politics UK

From James Rigby: “Why should I pay for someone else to have a spare bedroom, when I can’t afford one myself (and I’m overcrowded and need one)?”

 

Alan Wyllie

What is a ‘spare bedroom’?

David Orr, chief executive of the National Housing Federation covers this point:

If you’ve read some of the more lurid reports in the tabloids, you might believe that there are thousands of people living on their own in five bedroom mansions. The truth is that 80% of all those affected are regarded as having one ‘spare’ room. Spare. That’s an interesting idea. These rooms are not lying empty. They are where the kids do their homework and sleep. That’s a bedroom, not a spare room. They are where the equipment is stored for the family with a multi handicapped son. They are where kids stay when they visit the father who is separated from their mother. They are rooms where the messy business of living goes on in an ordinary way.

http://www.housing.org.uk/media/david_orrs_blog/the_bedroom_tax_some_home_tru.aspx

 

 

Alan Wyllie

So to answer James question: “”Why should I pay for someone else to have a spare bedroom”

There are not enough smaller homes in the social housing sector for them to move into. What will happen is that YOU, the taxpayer, will have to pay the extra costs incurred by that tenant moving into a home in the private sector.

 

So in fact, it is cheaper to the taxpayer if the tenant stays in their home.

 

Alan Wyllie

“when I can’t afford one myself (and I’m overcrowded and need one)?”

 

The core problem is that there are not enough one and two bedroom flats in the social sector. To me, the most obvious solution is to build more homes rather than make disabled and poor people homeless.

 

Politics UK

But is it fair?

 

Alan Wyllie

I assume that you mean that because the private sector has “Local Housing Allowance”?

 

Alan Wyllie

First, I think housing benefit should be based on a person’s income. I do not think that tenants should be penalised for having ‘too many’ room ESPECIALLY when there are not sufficient homes in our housing system.

 

The ‘bedroom tax’ punishes people because previous Governments did not have the foresight to build smaller homes.

 

Alan Wyllie

This shouldn’t be a private sector V social sector debate.

 

The private sector is privately owned and it objective are to make a profit.

 

The objective of social housing is to ensure that everyone can have a home!

 

We need to remember that our forefathers/mothers created the social housing sector for a reason and that reason is that the ‘free market’ cares for profit and not for people. Do we really want a return of workhouses and people living on the streets?

 

Politics UK

What are the ramifications of this new policy?

 

Alan Wyllie

I was speaking to my local Councillor last month. She told me that there are shops in Paisley that sell single eggs as that is all some customers can afford.

 

That was BEFORE the cuts to welfare in April.

 

And please bear in mind that there are NOT enough smaller homes for people to move into. People will WANT to move but CAN’T move.

 

Alan Wyllie

People will pay the bedroom tax…but will not have enough money to feed & heat themselves and their family.

OR

People will not pay the bedroom tax…but will face eviction proceedings.

 

If we play by their rules we cannot win.

 

Politics UK

What are your views on evictions due to ‘bedroom tax’ arrears?

 

Alan Wyllie

I am Scottish. We are lucky in Scotland. It would take one amendment to prevent Housing laws in Scotland [Section 16 of the Housing (Scotland) Act]. This one amendment would re-classify all debts accrued by the bedroom tax as ‘ordinary debt’. It would mean that EVERY Scot would be protected by Holyrood from evictions. But sadly, the SNP Govt are not willing to do that.

 

My own council, after lobbying from myself and other local activists, has a ‘no eviction’ policy. I would urge every single one of you to lobby your council and housing association so that there is a no eviction policy in your area.

 

Politics UK

There will be a chance to comment/ask questions at the end of the interview.

 

All comments will be deleted. Please wait. Not long to go.

 

Politics UK

The Government claims that, ultimately, the housing benefit budget needs to come down. Do you agree with that?

 

Alan Wyllie

The reason that Housing benefit is rising so high is not due to people in social housing having a spare bedroom.

 

It is rising due to lack of social housing and the selloff of social housing; there has been less social housing tenants and rising amount of private sector tenants.

 

This rise of private sector tenant (who still receive housing benefit to cover the exorbitant private sector rents) is a direct cause of the increase in the housing benefit budget.

 

Alan Wyllie

If the Government was serious about cutting the housing benefit bill they would CAP RENTS in the private sector and build more social housing.

 

The Bedroom Tax is nothing but a divisive attack on the poor.

 

Politics UK

You have said it is ‘divisive’ and ‘attacks the poor’, can you expand on that?

 

Alan Wyllie

“Divisive”:

The bedroom tax pits neighbour v neighbour.

You could have a tenement flat with 6 households in it. Some of these households will be over-occupied, some under-occupied. The bedroom tax implies that it is the cause of the housing crisis is the ‘selfish skiver in social housing who has a spare bedroom’ when, in fact, it is a political problem that the UK Government(s) has ignored!

 

Alan Wyllie

“Attacks the poor”

The Bedroom tax ONLY affects those who receive housing benefit. To get housing benefit you need to be poor.

 

This is an attack on the poor and vulnerable in our country!

 

Alan Wyllie

ATOS, the selloff of the NHS in England, workers’ rights, legal rights, benefit cuts, defending banker’s bonuses…all symptom of bad politics.

 

Politics UK

“Bad Politics”?

 

Alan Wyllie

Our political system is so corrupt that even the most well intentioned (WO) man is tainted by it. We need political and economic reforms so that we are not under-represented in those systems…

 

Politics UK

In what way are we under-represented?

 

Alan Wyllie

Ok….

 

It is Election Day, you go to the ballot box.

There is a list of candidates and you pick the one who you wish to represent you.

That candidate is elected into Parliament to represent YOU.

But at Parliament, Party Whips ensure that elected representatives follow the ‘party line’.

 

MPs represents their political party. So who represents the views of the people?

 

Examples of this are the libdem pledge on tuition fees, ‘no top-down re-organisation of the NHS’ ’WMD in Iraq”…

 

Alan Wyllie

Want more?

 

Politics UK

Yes, tell us more.

 

Alan Wyllie

I read an article on the Telegraph. It said that the City of London had more fiscal levers that the Treasury. I thought ‘fantastic!! Another layer of democracy in our economy”….

 

But it turns out that the city of London is slightly different from most areas. Businesses can vote in that area….In actual fact Business have MORE votes than people.

 

So that means that the City of London (who are ‘democratically elected’ by big business) has MORE influence over our economy that what we have!!

 

How DARE they steal that political power from us! That is OUR power. It is our economy.

 

Alan Wyllie

What we are now seeing is the amalgamation of the State and Big Business. Where we have private business which are ‘too big to fail’ yet the state is quick enough to kick people onto the streets for having a spare room!

 

Err…excuse the rant

 

Politics UK

So, what has been the highlights so far in the last few months?

 

Alan Wyllie

People are awakening from their political slumber. And when they awake, they are angry. That inspires me

 

And leading the demo alongside Jaki, Jim, Mark and Chris was an experience that I will never forget.

 

Politics UK

What’s in store for you for the next few months?

 

Alan Wyllie

We are speaking at the May Day Rally in Glasgow on the 5th.https://www.facebook.com/events/585161678174580/592824954074919/?ref=notif&notif_t=plan_mall_activity

 

Alan Wyllie

We then have our protest march/family fun day on the 18th

https://www.facebook.com/events/502810876434733/?fref=ts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alan Wyllie

Then we are off to London to speak at a conference on the 22nd with the Campaign for Benefit Justice

 

Alan Wyllie

Then back to London for the People’s Assembly in June 22. http://thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/

 

The People’s Assembly Against Austerity

thepeoplesassembly.org.uk

Saturday 22 June 2013 9:30am – 5pm Central Hall Westminster

 

Alan Wyllie

In-between all of that, we have local No2BedroomTax groups that are being created up and down the country.

 

If any PUK users want to join the campaign, email info@no2bedroomtax.co.uk

 

Politics UK

This is the final question from PUK.

 

Ultimately, what do you want to achieve?

 

Alan Wyllie

Personally, I want to reform politics so that policies such as the bedroom tax can never happen again.

I want social justice to be at the heart of our country.

I want political power returned to the people.

 

As a campaign we hope to be an umbrella organisation that can help and support anyone who is affected by any of the Government’s cuts.

 

Politics UK

PoliticsUK would like to thank all the organisers of the No2BEdroomTax Campaign and wish you all the best in the future.

**************************************

The Q&A is now open for direct questions.

 

The No2Bedroomtax organisers will take a 10 minute break.

 

When they come back online, they will answer all the questions that have been posted and then this Q&A will be finished.

 

Robert Brenchley

Thanks for this. We’re trying to build the campaign in Birmingham, specifically over the Bedroom Tax, but ultimately to oppose all the cuts, and change the political climate to stop this ever happening again. Do you have any advice to offer? You seem to have got further than we have.

 

Mark E Horler

If party politics is such a problem, what do you suggest instead? Is there a better alternative?

 

Michelle Reece

With so many individual campaigns running across the nation, wouldn’t one united group make more sense? I’m finding the message is getting diluted, very little coverage in the media.

 

Andrew Walker

Personal View: I think the idea behind it is fair and sound to the point of delivery. But I agree it was also short sighted in that asking people, or expecting people to move to a smaller property that does not exist is a little silly.

 

Question 1: This has been spoken about since late 2011, was signed off by the Lords in Nov 12. So do you not think it’s a little late to do this now, when really this campaign should have started this time last year?

 

Question 2: Rather than champion a negative with such energy, why not champion an alternative which can be proven to work. Detailed presentation. If the aim is to have smaller properties in needed areas then let’s find the money, and question the government’s spending plans, and ask to divert the funds needed to an overall positive rather than calling something a tax, which is not a tax at all, and protesting something that has happened already ?

 

Alan Wyllie

Mark Horler

There is a far better alternative.

YOU ARE THE ALTERNATIVE!!

Stand as an independent in 2015. Join other ‘non-political’ people and reclaim politics as your own.

 

Last year the idea of a Coalition of Independents was floated. It is an idea that I fully support. People MUST reclaim the political power that has been stolen from us.

 

Alan Wyllie

Robert Brenchley

 

It is very difficult. I would advise you to hook up with as many other campaigns as possible. Arrange a date for a march and then go for it. People WILL help and support you but I think having something to aim for gives the campaign some impetus.

 

James Bailey

Thanks for the interesting and informative interview, Alan, there are certainly some bookmark worthy links you’ve used to back your arguments up.

 

You say you “despise the term ‘bedroom tax” and that “it is ‘politicspeak’ … used to blur the issue.” However, your name is ‘No2BedroomTax Campaign’. Why did the campaign take on such a name if you’re so heavily against the benefit cut being called a tax? Are you yourself not blurring the issue/sending a mixed message by (appearing) to buy into the idea that this is a tax? I also read your piece outlining why it wasn’t a tax. I was just wondering why you called the campaign what you did, even though you don’t believe the name of the reform helps the debate?

 

Cheers.

 

Wallace Kerr

Thanks for that Alan, very informative and frank, I like that.

 

However I myself have been on the campaign trail as you know, and I have one crucial factor I would like to put across.

 

I see it like this, I would like people to look at the bigger picture, stand back and look at the whole house.

This I believe is the ultimate goal of the government, no matter who is in parliament, Tories, labour, lib dems the wombles of Wimbledon common.

 

I see their ultimate goal as the privatisation of social housing, and I see the accursed bed/tax as the first rung on the ladder, an end to social housing fought for by our ancestors, I find it down right treason of the most vulnerable people, basic human rights.

 

May I ask you thoughts on this?

 

Alan Wyllie

Michelle Reece,

I think you must have a lowest common denominator as an entry for the campaign. If someone is against the bedroom tax or other welfare chances then they are welcome into the campaign.

 

We have faced obstacles due to different factions. We just got to stay determined.

 

Mainstream media has no interest in us whatsoever. Social media is the future.

 

Alan Wyllie

Andrew Walker

Question 1: This has been spoken about since late 2011, was signed off by the Lords in Nov 12. So do you not think it’s a little late to do this now, when really this campaign should have started this time last year?

 

Honestly, I didn’t think it would go through Lords. I also thought the Govt would do a U-Turn as the policy just doesn’t make political or economic sense.

 

Also, my personal circumstances dictated that this was the earliest I could enter any political campaign.

 

Alan Wyllie

Rather than champion a negative with such energy, why not champion an alternative which can be proven to work. Detailed presentation. If the aim is to have smaller properties in needed areas then let’s find the money, and question the government’s spending plans, and ask to divert the funds needed to an overall positive rather than calling something a tax, which is not a tax at all, and protesting something that has happened already ?

 

I agree completely. But the campaign is not a month old. We are in talks with charities and housing experts to bring forward a solution to our housing crisis. But that will take time as we are starting from scratch.

Phil Meballs

Holloway Alan Wyllie. I’ve checked out your site and done a few google searches but I’m looking for a strategy guide on successful lobbying for no evictions. In the event this tax will be applied we must fall back to a position of protection. I think this is priority. Get it on your site

 

Alan Wyllie

James Bailey:

Yes, I’m being a hypocrite. I will put my hands up to that. It is something we spoke about in great detail but we decided to stick with the name as we were already known by that name

 

Alan Wyllie

Wallace Kerr

I totally agree. This is intentional. We are seeing the death of the ‘welfare state’.

 

We can either sit back or watch it die or fight back?

 

Mick Constable

1/ notwithstanding the high turnout for the GLASGOW PROTESTS, why do you think it is that it was not repeated country wide. Most of the other protests, including in London, were comparatively speaking, poorly attended.

 

2/ What is your response to the clear indications of wide public support generally in favour of Government Welfare Reforms, and what impact will this have on your cause. In particular, the high levels of support from the lower paid, and Labour supporters.

 

Alan Wyllie

Phil Meballs Holloway
Fair Point. That will get done ASAP.

 

To anyone else. ALL feedback is appreciated. We are new to this so WILL make mistakes.

 

Alan Wyllie

Mick Constable

1/ notwithstanding the high turnout for the GLASGOW PROTESTS, why do you think it is that it was not repeated country wide. Most of the other protests, including in London, were comparatively speaking, poorly attended.

 

We are better organised. It is as simple as that. Glasgow was waiting for something to happen. We were just the right people at the right time.

 

There is a militant tendency that is ingrained in us Scots. The demo in March showed that

 

Alan Wyllie

Mick Constable

2/ What is your response to the clear indications of wide public support generally in favour of Government Welfare Reforms, and what impact will this have on your cause. In particular, the high levels of support from the lower paid, and Labour supporters.

 

The mainstream media do not tell the truth. The lie and have their own agenda. Unfortunately our media has decided not to tell the full truth about the welfare reforms.

 

That is why it is ESSENTIAL that communities are INFORMED so that they can be EMPOWERED which will bring about CHANGE.

 

Community action is the answer. Bring the power back to the people.

 

Mick Constable

I refer to recent polls and not media reports Alan, you will find it difficult to empower anyone, when it appears they are happy with what is happening.

 

Robert Brenchley

How did you go about organising things in Glasgow? We had a hundred or so in Birmingham last Saturday. It was good, we talked to a lot of people, made our presence felt, but it’s not a patch on what you managed.

 

Alan Wyllie

That is why it is so important to inform people.

 

I have spoken to people who have said “I agree with the bedroom tax” and I have said; “Are you aware that over 80% of people affected by the bedroom tax are disabled? The bedroom tax will be a benefit cut for disabled people.”

 

The answer I usually get is “WFT?!?! Tory $%(*£(£)($)”%!!”

 

Information and education is the key.

 

Andrew Walker

Do you think, with hindsight, following your answer to question 2, you have learnt a lot from this, and will next time do it better. The next campaign I mean.

 

I ask this, because the campaign is against something which is to simply stop something that has already started, and so will be very difficult, if not impossible, to change as both houses agreed upon it.

 

You answer implies it will change to a solution, should the solution not have come before the protest?

 

Mick Constable

80% of 660k, and that doesn’t include the exemptions.

 

Alan Wyllie

We have quite a lot of experience on social media Robert Brenchley. I used to run this page so I knew a lot of politically active people. We then winged it. I arranged meetings off and online and then spoke.

 

I think the big thing is that we have a demo to aim for. We got Unions involved and just spread the word as much as we could.

 

Robert Brenchley

Pretty much what’s happening here, so maybe we’ll catch up in time! Thanks.

 

Alan Wyllie

To be honest Andrew, I’m more concerned at stopping evictions (that will start in Sept/Oct).

 

It may take til the end of the year to come up with a full solution. There will be evictions before then.

 

Alan Wyllie

Over 400,000 disabled people will have their housing benefit cut due to them having a ‘spare room’ Mick. Whatever way you say it…it is damn sick.

 

Andrew Walker

The thing is, as it has been slightly talked about, the eviction has to go to Court, and no judge is going to evict someone without good cause. If the evidence shows they cannot pay the rent, and give reason, the law is on the side of the tenant. I am sure with the team you have, this would have been brought up?

 

Andrew Walker

I just think it’s worth remembering this done case by case, and those with real need will be protected.

 

Alan Wyllie

Thanks folks. I’ve enjoyed tonight but I need my beauty sleep.

 

If you have any fears or worries about the bedroom tax or other welfare cuts, please contact the No2BEdroomTax Campaign via email at info@no2bedroomtax.co.uk or PM me directly.

 

Andrew, we work closely with law centres. As you rightfully say, we just do not know until it goes to court. We will use all avenues to stop the bedroom tax and support those who are affected by it.

 

Andrew Walker

Thanks Alan Wyllie and good luck

 

Abby Moonbeam

I take inspiration from the poll tax Andrew Walker. It was established in Scotland, and it was defeated.

 

James Bailey

Thanks Alan, again, a great interview. I can totally understand why you went for the name you chose. It’s been sound bited and pre-packaged that many times as a ‘bedroom tax’, to simply call it anything else would confuse a lot of people. I think the fact your campaign is named ‘No2BedroomTax’ is more of a reflection on the media and politicians than on your campaign, which seems to be expanding rapidly without confusion over its name. Great job!

 

Phil Meballs Holloway

That was interesting stuff. Cheers PUK and Alan.

 

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